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charlie319

Boon Or Bane; Mitt Romney's Bain Capital Record Of "vulture Capitalism"

231 posts in this topic

Como me estoy disfrutando este circo republicano..... :hysterical:


[color=#0000cd][b][size=6]Perry donor defects to Romney, citing Bain attacks[/size][/b][/color]

[url="http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/tag/cnn-political-reporter-peter-hamby/"]CNN Political Reporter Peter Hamby[/url]


[b]Columbia, South Carolina (CNN) –[/b] One of Rick Perry's leading financial supporters in South Carolina is defecting to Mitt Romney – and he told CNN Thursday that[b] Perry's sharp criticisms of Romney as a [color=#ff0000]"vulture capitalist"[/color] were the main factor in his decision.[/b]

Both Perry and Newt Gingrich recently began hammering Romney as a predatory capitalist who looted companies and fired workers when he was running the private equity firm Bain Capital in the 1980s and 1990s.

Barry Wynn, the former chairman of the South Carolina Republican Party and a financial adviser in Spartanburg, said[b] the escalating rhetoric about Romney's business background is "destructive."[/b]

"It's just a dance I didn't want to be a part of," Wynn said in an interview, explaining his decision to leave Perry's campaign.

Wynn, along with a handful of other previously neutral South Carolina moneymen, will publicly endorse Romney on Thursday.

"This latest attack, it's so foreign to me, I couldn't see myself being a part of that," he explained. "I don't think you can be on both sides of free market capitalism. A big part of me being a Republican for the last 40 years is that I think it's the best hope to protect free market capitalism, the growth engine of our economy."

Wynn was part of a group of Republican bundlers who traveled to Texas last August to meet with Perry before he launched his presidential bid.

But he said the Texas governor's latest message is contrary to "everything that Republicans have been struggling for."

"It's hard enough to make that case for capitalism, and [b]to have people in our own party attacking the case,[/b] it's not good for the party or good for the country," he said. "It kind of falls into this politics of envy that the Obama campaign is going to be all about between now and November."

Romney met with Wynn on Thursday morning after his event in Greer.

Wynn said he has always admired the former Massachusetts governor's business background.

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Perry es otro candidato superfluo.

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Yo lo vengo escuchando por 20 an~os a Rush Limbaugh y lo unico que le falta es que le de la bendicion explicita a Romney. Hoy Glenn Beck y John Gibson le tiraron mierda a Gingrich y Perry por pasarse de la raya con los embustes del video ese (que aqui par de 'neo-defecators', porque tenia el tipo de class warfare que a ellos le gusta, se tragaron hook line and sinker).

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Aqui esta el analisis de Fack Checker sobre el videito quele encanto a Charlie y al Embustero:


[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/four-pinocchios-for-king-of-bain/2012/01/12/gIQADX8WuP_blog.html"]http://www.washingto...X8WuP_blog.html[/url]
[left]Newt Gingrich, meet Michael Moore![/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]The [url="http://www.webcasts.com/kingofbain/"]29-minute video “King of Bain”[/url] is such an over-the-top assault on former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney that it is hard to know where to begin. It uses evocative footage from distraught middle-class Americans who allege that Romney’s deal-making is responsible for their woes. It mixes images of closed factories and shuttered shops with video clips of Romney making him look foolish, vain or greedy. And it has a sneering voice-over that seeks to push every anti-Wall Street button possible.[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]Here’s just a sampling of what [url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-leadership/post/mitt-romney-bain-and-the-blurred-line-between-private-equity-and-political-leaders/2011/04/01/gIQAHw2CwP_blog.html"]Romney and Bain Capital[/url], which he once headed, is accused of: “Stripping American businesses of assets, selling everything to the highest bidder and often killing jobs for big financial rewards . . . high disdain for American businesses and workers . . . upended the company and dismantled the work force; now they were able to make a handsome profit . . . cash rampage . . . contributing to the greatest American job loss since World War II . . . turn the misfortune of others into their own enormous financial gain.”[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]The video ends with a crescendo of images of despair, with voices of the victims adding emotional punch: “A lot of lives were ruined . . . he took away our livelihoods . . . he took away our future . . . he destroyed a lot of homes . . . it all gets back to greed.” (Irritatingly, few of these ordinary citizens are identified.)[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]The video is reminiscent of the devastating series of attack ads released by then-Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.) that derailed Romney’s Senate campaign in 1994. In fact, we’d swear some of the people interviewed for “King of Bain,” who are identified as working for Ampad in Marion, Ind., are the same as those interviewed for the Kennedy ads at SCM, which Ampad acquired. They just look two decades older. (We have embedded a collection of the Kennedy ads at the end of this column.)[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]Let’s take a look at some of the claims in “King of Bain.” The video clip above is from a 60-second commercial aired by “Winning Our Future.” The full video can be found [url="http://www.webcasts.com/kingofbain/"]here[/url]. As we will demonstrate, at least some of the interviews of ordinary citizens appear to have been conducted under misleading pretenses and have been selectively edited to leave a false impression.[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif][b]The Facts[/b][/font][/color][/size][/left][left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]First of all, it is a stretch to portray Romney as some sort of corporate raider, akin to Carl Icahn (whose image is briefly seen). Bain Capital initially was in the business of providing venture capital — seed money — for start-ups, such as Staples. Then it moved to the more lucrative business of private equity, in which Bain won control of firms, reorganized them and then sold them for profit. (Our colleague Suzy Khimm earlier this week [url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-two-faces-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital/2012/01/10/gIQArYmRoP_blog.html"]did an excellent job[/url] of explaining the two sides of Bain Capital.) [/font][/color][/size][/left]


[left][size=4]Private equity deals, such as leveraged buyouts in which the company borrows lots of debt, can be more rewarding but also more risky. Some of those deals went bad for Bain, which sometimes happens in finance, though the company usually made money anyway. New York magazine, which the film cites as a source, recently ran <a href="http://nymag.com/news/politics/mitt-romney-2011-10/" style="color: black; ">an excellent profile of Romney in which it explored Romney’s pioneering role in the then-emerging field of private equity. Private equity revolutionized American business, demanding efficiencies (which can mean layoffs) and helping place much more emphasis on increasing shareholder value.[/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]The movie pejoratively claims that the “Bain Way” was shorthand for being able to “turn the misfortunes of others into their enormous financial gains.” Bain Capital was actually an offshoot of Bain & Company, a consulting firm, and the “Bain Way” refers to its heavily analytical and data-driven approach to problems.[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]It’s beyond the scope of this column to assess whether the changes in American capitalism brought about by private equity ultimately are good or bad for the American economy. ([url="http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/01/is-private-equity-bad-for-the-economy/251245/"]Here’s a good primer[/url].) But we can assess whether the four specific deals highlighted by the film are depicted with accuracy.[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[size=4][b]The closure of the UniMac plant in Marianna, Fla[/b][/size][left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]In the film, three former employees of UniMac, which makes commercial washing machines, appear to suggest that quality went down under Bain Capital’s management and that a plant in Marianna, Fla., was closed because of Romney’s actions.[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]But the chronology is all jumbled. Bain Capital bought the business from Raytheon in 1998, and Romney left Bain a year later to run the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City. In 2005, Bain sold UniMac (also called Alliance Laundry) to a Canadian entity known as Teachers’ Private Capital. The factory was moved from Marianna to Ripon, Wisc., in 2006, after Bain’s involvement ended — a fact made clear on the [url="http://www.washers-r-us.com/about_us"]Web site of a laundry repair business[/url] co-owned by the people featured in the film.[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]In fact, Mike Baxley, who was interviewed for the film, said that he and his partner had “absolutely no idea” that the interviews were for a film about Romney and Bain. He said they thought they were being interviewed for a documentary about the factory closing.[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]“They said they wanted to know what it was like when the factory closed down,” he said, and he, his partner and his partner’s wife agreed to interviews after “they flashed a little money at us.” (Baxley, a Republican who said he had not yet thought much about the nomination contest, declined to reveal the amount.)[/font][/color][/size]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]After watching “King of Bain” at The Fact Checker’s request, he said: “We were pretty shocked. Our quotes were seriously taken out of context. There is a real lack of facts.”[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]Indeed, Baxley, Tommy Jones and Tammy Jones barely mention Romney and Bain as they talk about their angst about the factory closing; the narrator of the film inserts suggestions that Romney was responsible.[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]The film suggests that UniMac is out of business, but Baxley noted that UniMac [url="http://www.unimac.com/contact-us.aspx"]is still going strong[/url] at its new headquarters in Wisconsin. He said that the same upper management team ran the company during the course of the various investments by outside partners such as Bain, and that Bain appeared to have little involvement in UniMac’s management.[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[size=4][b]The bankruptcy of KB Toys[/b][/size][left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]Here again, the chronology is off. Bain Capital did not buy KB Toys until late 2000, more than a year after Romney left for the Olympics. But the film states, “Romney and Bain bought the 80-year-old company in 2000, loaded it with millions in debt.” It then attributes the failure of KB Toys in 2008 to that debt load, without noting that a horrible retail environment wiped out a number of chains, particularly toy stores. [/font][/color][/size][/left]

[size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]Then the film runs a snippet from a 2010 [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_wuYjV1RZs"]Romney appearance at Emory University[/url], making it appear as if he is talking about KB Toys when he speaks of “creative destruction.” (This is not a Romney phrase but an economic term referring to the creation of new technologies.) The film does not include the rest of Romney’s remarks on the importance of helping people transition from jobs in outmoded industries to new ones.[/font][/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]The segment also misquotes [url="http://www.bostonherald.com/news/politics/view.bg?articleid=1212512"]an article[/url] from the Boston Herald, making it appear as if the newspaper editorialized that Romney and Bain made ”disgusting” profits. But the quote actually was from a former worker who had been laid off at KB Toys.[/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][b]The bankruptcy of DDi[/b][/size][left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]The segment tries to tie Romney to Wall Street games-playing by focusing on allegations that Lehman Brothers pumped up the stock of DDi, allowing Bain Capital to sell its shares for big gains, even while an Lehman analyst had misgivings about the Orange County electronics maker. [/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]According to an Aug. 26, 2003, account in the Orange County Register, which the film cites as a source, Bain Capital under Romney’s leadership invested $46 million in DDi in 1997. It sold many of its shares for at least $93 million and received a $10 million management fee, but the newspaper said Bain retained a 14 percent stake in the firm that was wiped out when DDi filed for bankruptcy during the dot-com bust. (The film suggests Bain had sold all of its shares, saying it had “dumped the rest.”)[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]Lehman Brothers in 2003 paid $80 million to settle charges by the Securities and Exchange Commission that its bankers had tainted stock recommendations in five instances, including recommendations for DDi. But the SEC did not say that Bain had done anything wrong. Romney, who again was by then involved in the Olympics, also invested some of his own money in DDi and sold it before the stock crashed, the Boston Globe reported in 2003.[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]The film, while focusing on the 2,200 jobs that were lost during the technology bust, does not mention that DDi emerged from bankruptcy proceedings and [url="http://www.ddiglobal.com/"]is currently thriving[/url].[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[size=4][b]The demise of the Ampad facility in Marion, Ind.[/b][/size][left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]Finally, the film comes to a case that directly involves Romney. As mentioned before, this transaction formed the core of Ted Kennedy’s ad war against Romney, and the interviews in those ads are raw and on point. Clearly, people in Marion are still angry at Bain’s role in the demise of the facility there.[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]Bain assembled Ampad (formerly American Pad & Paper, supposedly the creator of the legal pad) through what is known as a “roll-up strategy,” in which similar companies are purchased in the same industry. One of these companies was the writing product firm SCM, based in Marion, which was purchased in 1994. The efficiencies of scale at first proved a success, and Bain made a fortune — some $100 million, according to the Globe.[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]But the company floundered — ironically because of price pressure from companies such as Staples, which was started with help from Bain. Ampad filed for bankruptcy protection in 1999 but [url="http://www.pendaflex.com/enUS/ProductsAjax/default.html#/Categories/Brands/Ampad_"]still exists today[/url] as part of Esselte Corp.[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]One former Ampad employee claims Romney has 15 homes, which is simply not correct; he or his wife appear to have three homes (though worth almost $20 million), according to[url="http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jan/12/winning-our-future/does-mitt-romney-have-15-homes-woman-winning-our-f/"]PolitiFact[/url].[/font][/color][/size][/left]

[size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]Moreover, without evidence, the film claims that “tens of thousands” of people have lost their jobs because of actions taken by Romney and Bain Capital. We [url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/mitt-romney-and-100000-jobs-an-untenable-figure/2012/01/09/gIQAIoihmP_blog.html"]have taken Romney to task[/url] for claiming he helped create “100,000 jobs,” and this is an equally unfounded claim.[/font][/color][/size]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif][b]The Pinocchio Test[/b][/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif]Romney may have opened the door to this kind of attack with his suspect job-creation claims, but that is no excuse for this highly misleading portrayal of Romney’s years at Bain Capital. Only one of the four case studies directly involves Romney and his decision-making, while at least two are completely off point. The manipulative way the interviews appeared to have been gathered for the UniMac segment alone discredits the entire film. [/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Georgia, serif][b]Four Pinocchios[/b][/font][/color][/size][/left]

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Se te olvido "100% equivocado"... Yo nunca use el video de Gingrich.

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Charlie:[color=#ff0000][i][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Prefiero otro cuatrenio de un Obama sin mayoria legislativa que a Robbo-Mitt entregandole mas a sus cofraternos de Dewey, Cheatem & Howe... [/font][/i][/color]

Tipico 40% de los 'Default Obama Voters' que siguen a Ron Paul. Ahora que sabes que 'Robbo-Mitt' no es Robbo, y el video es tan real como "Cheatem and Howe", que dices Charlie?

Acuerdate de la prediccion que hice: eres tan flojito que para Noviembre tu alma sera para Obama.

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[left][url="http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/01/13/gingrich-calls-on-pac-to-alter-film/"]http://blogs.wsj.com...-to-alter-film/[/url][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Newt Gingrich is calling on a political group backing his campaign to revise or withdraw a documentary attacking [b]Mitt Romney’s[/b] work at Bain Capital.[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The political action committee Winning Our Future created the 28-minute documentary, “King of Bain,” and is running ads based on it in South Carolina ahead of that state’s Jan. 21 primary.[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Gingrich statement came after Washington Post columnist [b]Glenn Kessler[/b] this morning gave “King of Bain” his four-Pinocchio rating. Mr. Kessler accused the film makers of using “manipulative interviews” and other tactics to create a “highly misleading portrayal of Romney’s years at Bain Capital.”[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In his statement, Mr. Gingrich says: “I am calling for the Winning Our Future super PAC supporting me to either edit its ‘King of Bain’ advertisement and movie to remove its inaccuracies, or to pull it off the air and off the Internet entirely.”[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mr. Gingrich said Mr. Romney should also ask super PACs backing him to remove any ads that contain inaccuracies. Mr. Romney has said that he isn’t responsible for the ads of pro-Romney super PACs, which by law can’t coordinate with the candidate.[/font][/color][/size][/left]
[left][size=4][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Winning Our Future’s [b]Rick Tyler[/b] said earlier this week that while some Republicans had approached him expressing concerns about the move against Mr. Romney, “no one has told me to knock it off.”[/font][/color][/size][/left]

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[left]On the Bain Capital attacks:[/left]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baLaCl5WpIM#"]4:10[/url][left][color=#333333][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]Paul: I think it's a big distraction. And they're picking up on this[b] and those who are condemning him for it I think are arguing like Democrats[/b]. You know they come in and say, look restructuring in the free market is a good idea, and I don't know anything about Bain so I'm not taking a position on that I haven't looked at it and I have no idea what he did or didn't do, but the principle of restructuring is a good thing in the marketplace. [/size][/font][/color][/left]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baLaCl5WpIM#"]4:50[/url][left][color=#333333][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]Paul: For conservatives to come forward and say restructuring is bad, I think there is a big difference if you are restructuring in the free market and you are doing a positive thing versus somebody who may have taken money from Freddie Mac.[/size][/font][/color][/left]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baLaCl5WpIM#"]5:21[/url][left][color=#333333][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]Ingraham: Does it surprise you that Newt Gingrich is making this argument?[/size][/font][/color][/left]
[left]Paul: Not really. You know he's sort of struggling and he's looking for something, but I don't think it is going to sell because[b] I am hoping people understand the marketplace a little better than that. [/b][color=#0000ff](that line is for you Charlie and your cheerleader Mr. Liar) [/color][/left][left][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baLaCl5WpIM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baLaCl5WpIM[/url][/left]

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[quote name='Artaguito' timestamp='1326507842' post='2944995']Charlie:[color=#ff0000][i][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Prefiero otro cuatrenio de un Obama sin mayoria legislativa que a Robbo-Mitt entregandole mas a sus cofraternos de Dewey, Cheatem &amp; Howe... [/font][/i][/color]

Tipico 40% de los 'Default Obama Voters' que siguen a Ron Paul. Ahora que sabes que 'Robbo-Mitt' no es Robbo, y el video es tan real como &quot;Cheatem and Howe&quot;, que dices Charlie?

Acuerdate de la prediccion que hice: eres tan flojito que para Noviembre tu alma sera para Obama.[/quote]

Gingrich es otro "flip flopper" como Mitt Bain Romney...

Se que te traemos clavao por las tacticas que te ves obligado a usar. Para noviembre, mi alma pertenecera al NFL antes que a Obama o Romney pues Obama no necesitara mi voto para aplanar a Romney. Edited by charlie319

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[quote name='charlie319' timestamp='1326517647' post='2945001']
Gingrich es otro "flip flopper" como Mitt Bain Romney...

Se que te traemos clavao por las tacticas que te ves obligado a usar. Para noviembre, mi alma pertenecera al NFL antes que a Obama o Romney pues Obama no necesitara mi voto para aplanar a Romney.
[/quote]


"Mitt Bain Romney"?

Hasta ahora que sabemos que no hubo 'company predation' en los casos presentados y que el video es bogus?

Que le niegues el voto al candidato contra Obama es medio voto para Obama, lo que te convierte en un 'Default Obama Voter', igual que el 40% de los fanaticos de Ron Paul.


Y yo que estaba discutiendo de Bienes Raices con ustedes dos (tu y tu cheerleader Chemo) ahora me doy cuenta que estaba perdiendo mi tiempo con dos 'Class Warriors', que tienen la mente en el hoyete! Imaginate, Chemo (tu perrito faldero) es la hora que todavia no sabe la diferencia entre precio y valor de una propiedad, no en balde perdio hasta la camisa (si es que eso de las casas no es otra mentira mas).

Y tu Charlie te tuviste que ir a websites socialistas a buscar articulos anticorporatistas despues que te hundiste en el izquierdismo con una propuesta de redistribucion de riquezas (y castigo) que hubiese llenado de orgullo a Hugo Chavez Frias. Mandale una copia bien terminada de tu propuesta a ver si te manda una camiseta y boina colora de regalo!

Te llevaste el premio Mari-Bras del an~o, que ridiculo hiciste MiniNapoleon!

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[left][b]James Pethokoukis: [/b][/left][left][color=#0000ff][i][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]Of course, Romney and Bain weren’t in the game to create jobs. They were in it to make money for their investors and themselves. Then again, the same would go for Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Michael Dell, Warren Buffett, and just about every other successful entrepreneur and investor you could name. But that is the miracle of free-market capitalism. The pursuit of profits by creating value benefits the rest of society through higher incomes, more jobs, and better products and services. This isn’t “destructive creation”—like, say, crippling U.S. fossil fuel production before “clean energy” sources are viable—but “creative destruction” where innovation and efficiency sweep away the old and replace it with a more productive and wealthier society.[/size][/font][/i][/color][/left]

[url="http://blog.american.com/2012/01/romney-doesnt-need-to-apologize-for-his-bain-career/"]http://blog.american...is-bain-career/[/url]

[b]Aqui en Cafe Boricua hay unos cuantos que necesitan un poquito de capacitación capitalista para que se les quite la pendejada que tienen entre cuero y carne. Les sugiero que empiezen con cualquier libro de Milton Friedman, Hayek, y Von Mises, tambien que se lean 'The Pollitically Incorrect Guide to Socialism' de Kevin Williamson.[/b]

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Newt sabe que no va lograr la nominacion, lo que lo guia en la campana es su odio y deseo de venganza contra
Romney, nada mas. A Newt no le importa un k'rajo el partido, solo el hacerle dano a Romney.
Santorum es un extremista religioso, mas vale lo investiguen.
A los que critican a Bain, aparte de demostrar su ignorancia en materias economicas, demuestran su politizacion
extrema que los ciega para llegar a conclusiones realistas y razonables.
Capitalismo si, socialismo NO!

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[quote name='Artaguito' timestamp='1326544576' post='2945006']


"Mitt Bain Romney"?

Hasta ahora que sabemos que no hubo 'company predation' en los casos presentados y que el video es bogus?

Que le niegues el voto al candidato contra Obama es medio voto para Obama, lo que te convierte en un 'Default Obama Voter', igual que el 40% de los fanaticos de Ron Paul.


Y yo que estaba discutiendo de Bienes Raices con ustedes dos (tu y tu cheerleader Chemo) ahora me doy cuenta que estaba perdiendo mi tiempo con dos 'Class Warriors', que tienen la mente en el hoyete! Imaginate, Chemo (tu perrito faldero) es la hora que todavia no sabe la diferencia entre precio y valor de una propiedad, no en balde perdio hasta la camisa (si es que eso de las casas no es otra mentira mas).

Y tu Charlie te tuviste que ir a websites socialistas a buscar articulos anticorporatistas despues que te hundiste en el izquierdismo con una propuesta de redistribucion de riquezas (y castigo) que hubiese llenado de orgullo a Hugo Chavez Frias. Mandale una copia bien terminada de tu propuesta a ver si te manda una camiseta y boina colora de regalo!

Te llevaste el premio Mari-Bras del an~o, que ridiculo hiciste MiniNapoleon!
[/quote]

Como sabes eso de “que no hubo 'company predation' en los casos presentados”??? Tienes acceso a memoranda interno de al empresa? Esto no es mas que otra paja mental tuya. Yo no necesito en video para sustentar mi opinión. Sigues con la tactica de
Saul Alinsky de crear un efecto de halo para embarrar a tus adversarios con un evento que no tiene nada que ver con ellos. Seguro que tus contactos con la Fearless no te contagiaron de algo mas que su fino cuero alimentado por el exceso de estrogena, porque no toleras nada sin sacar las uñas…
Eso de votar por el enemigo de mi enemigo son politicas de reaccionario tercermundista que no entiende que esa es la manera mas facil de cambiar un pasivo politico y economico por uno peor.

A mi me gusta mas Chuck Roemer, pero Paul tiene mejor probabilidad deser electo. De hecho, Paul no es tan fuerte en mi asunto de mayor interes que es la del control migratorio, pero contrario a ti, no me ocupo de pulir la cristaleria cuando la casa esta en llamas.

Nooooo, estabs perdiendo tu tiempo por que no tienes chance de ganar. Y no digo eso por creerme mejor que tu en esto de investigar y debatir, sino porque estas equivocado, o como deberias de firmar: 100% equivocado, 100% desilusionado…

Ahora quien esta canalizando a Napo eres tu tratando de inferir que Chemo es subordinaod mio o como dices tu “perrito faldero”… Creo que Chemo te puede despachar sin contribución mia, pero la verdad es que el volumen de tu demagogia es tal que hay espacio de sobra par a que te den kengue.

Al menos yo voy a buscar articulos, y no creo haber ido a sitios socialistas pues varios de ellos los encontre en “American Border Patrol” que tratan mayormente con asuntos de migración, control de armas y otras causas mas de la derecha… Ciertamente teh has de ver bien con tu camisa negra y la banda roja con la swastika…

Creo que mas bien me lleve el premio a haberte dado una mini-clavada en publico.

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[quote name='Mobutu Sese' timestamp='1326557597' post='2945022']
Newt sabe que no va lograr la nominacion, lo que lo guia en la campana es su odio y deseo de venganza contra
Romney, nada mas. A Newt no le importa un k'rajo el partido, solo el hacerle dano a Romney.
Santorum es un extremista religioso, mas vale lo investiguen.
A los que critican a Bain, aparte de demostrar su ignorancia en materias economicas, demuestran su politizacion
extrema que los ciega para llegar a conclusiones realistas y razonables.
Capitalismo si, socialismo NO!
[/quote]

Newt esta en la contienda por interes personal y un poco de ego. El tiene que saber que su lastre personal lo convierten en un pesimo candidato con varios grupos de votantes.

Hasta donde se, Romney no le ha hecho nada a Gingrich, pero como hemos visto aquí, las afrentas se asumen aunque solo existan en la fantasia de quien se ofenda…

El problema de Bain para “Robbo-Mitt” no es que sea “capitalista” o deje de serlo, sino que el se ha tildado como un creador de empleos y la verdad dista mucho de tal auto-alabanza digna de una caricatura.


[b] Mitt Romney no job creator, says a man who knows[/b]

[email="jgarofoli@sfchronicle.com"]Joe Garofoli, Chronicle Staff Writer[/email]
Saturday, January 14, 2012
At the heart of Mitt Romney's presidential campaign pitch is his claim that Bain Capital, the private equity firm he led, has created 100,000 jobs.
[u]Several independent fact-checkers can't verify whether that claim is true, but Ed Kastenbaum saw a different story unfold at the East Bay packaging company where he worked when Bain acquired a controlling interest in it a decade ago[/u].
Kastenbaum watched many of his friends and co-workers leave the company, which sold boxes and bags to retailers, or lose their jobs after Bain tried to squeeze more efficiencies out of his division, beginning in 2002.
[b]"I find it personally insulting when Romney says his work at Bain created jobs," said Kastenbaum, a registered Republican who lives in Lafayette. "That's not what my experience was."[/b]
His experience and that of others who worked in his division of Unisource, the company that Bain took control of, are part of a bruising critique of Romney's description of Bain as a "job creator" as he and other GOP presidential candidates campaign in the days before next Saturday's South Carolina primary.
Several of Romney's rivals hope their attacks on him will derail the GOP front-runner in a state where the unemployment rate is 9.9 percent - higher than the national average of 8.5 percent and nearly twice as much as Iowa or New Hampshire.
[b]Romney TV ad[/b]
On Friday, Romney fought back with a TV ad that said he "helped create and ran a company that invested in struggling businesses, started new ones and rebuilt old ones, creating thousands of jobs."
But[b] critics say that version forgets all the people who were laid off while Romney and his fellow investors enriched themselves, no matter how the restructurings fared[/b]. Romney's personal worth is between $190 million and $250 million, according to campaign finance filings. He left Bain in 1999 to serve as CEO of the 2002 Olympic Games in Salt Lake City.
After Bain purchased a controlling interest in Unisource, the packaging firm's way of doing business changed like it hadn't since [b]Kastenbaum started working there as a sales representative in 1984, when it was Conifer Paper, a family-owned business. Conifer merged in 1993 with another firm before Unisource bought it in 1996.[/b]
[b]A few years later, Kastenbaum was the vice president and general manager of the operating division in Hayward. "We were running a healthy business," he said[/b].
[b]While the division had many large customers, [u]small businesses were the core of its clientele[/u], said former staffers[/b].
But [u]after Bain gained a controlling interest in the firm, the private equity firm started instituting changes that demanded that the packaging company focus on larger customers, such as department stores, Kastenbaum said[/u].
He and other employees were told it would be more efficient to focus on fewer big clients than many smaller ones. But for a variety of factors - including the post-9/11 economic downturn - business decreased and the Hayward division dwindled. Delivery drivers were offered positions elsewhere. A customer service outpost in Emeryville moved to Los Angeles.
Much of the sales staff - many of whom had worked together for 20 years - left or lost their jobs.
Jeff Diener, a former top salesman at Unisource, said "it was unfair to bash" Romney "because he was trying to run a successful business." Diener left the company in 2006, he said, "because of the tough environment" that accompanied the changes there after Bain took over.
"They looked at the bottom line of the balance sheet a little more than the human sacrifice that was required to meet it," said Diener, a Sacramento resident who hasn't decided which candidate to support for president this year. He soon got another job after leaving Unisource.
The stress on Gary Berger, a salesman who was in his late 50s at the time, was intense. His marriage crumbled and he quit his sales job in 2006.

[b]'Going crazy'[/b]
"I thought I was going crazy. Some outside entity was calling all the shots," said Berger, a San Franciscan who got another job, which paid less.
Bain declined to comment for this story. But a source familiar with Bain's operations at the time in the Unisource division said most of the workers in the Hayward division were moved to other parts of the company. Roughly 30 positions were eliminated, that source and others confirmed.
Democratic operatives didn't ask Kastenbaum to tell his story, and he isn't affiliated with a rival campaign. [b]He's a registered Republican, but he supported Barack [url="http://www.sfgate.com/barack-obama/"]Obama[/url] in 2008 and intends to vote for the president this year.[/b]
In 2006, Kastenbaum received a buyout package to leave Unisource and soon found another job.
[b]Three years ago, he became a job creator. He owns the Packaging Store, with stores in Santa Clara and San Francisco that employ a total of 15 people[/b]. The stores focus on small and medium-size clients like those he used to serve.
[b]Vulture capitalism[/b]
Debate over Romney's Bain career continued Friday. It has raged since Texas Gov. Rick Perry described it as "vulture capitalism" - when a corporate takeover firm profits after restructuring a company.
Winning Our Future, a super PAC backing former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, went on the air this week with a $3.4 million ad campaign that describes Romney as the leader of a firm that was a "corporate raider" and "more ruthless than Wall Street."
The ads are culled from a 28-minute film, "King of Bain: When Mitt Romney came to town," which Winning Our Future paid for. The spots feature workers who lost their jobs as a result of Bain-led restructurings.
On Friday, the nonpartisan fact-checking site [b]Politifact.com found that the film's accuracy "was mixed at best."[/b]
E-mail Joe Garofoli at [email="jgarofoli@sfchronicle.com"]jgarofoli@sfchronicle.com[/email].

"Mixed at best" is not False...Y este articulo de POLITICO donde vemos algunas tacticas que ya hemos visto aqui por los ciegos de la derecha que van a donde sus lazarillos corporativistas los lleven…

[b]Romney readies Bain counterattack[/b]
By: Reid J. Epstein
January 11, 2012 07:58 PM EST
COLUMBIA, S.C. — [url="http://www.politico.com/tag/mittromney"]Mitt Romney’s[/url] done defending his Bain Capital record. He’s going on offense.

The former Massachusetts governor arrived here Wednesday fresh off his New Hampshire primary win [url="http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-haberman/2012/01/romney-bain-hits-are-good-practice-110526.html"]armed with a new plan[/url] for a multi-pronged response to the Republican rivals [url="http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0112/71344.html"]who’ve been bashing[/url] his private equity past. [u]Campaign advisers are polishing new messaging, tailored to rebut Republican and Democratic attacks separately. They’re cueing up [url="http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-haberman/2012/01/romney-raises-million-in-fourth-quarter-110465.html"]new commercials[/url].[/u]

And they’re rolling out a more aggressive approach from the candidate himself, even as the candidates who’d been waging the Bain battle appeared to be retreating from the rhetoric on Wednesday.

The change comes following three days of stumbling responses from Romney and campaign aides, who admit they were caught unprepared for the explosion of Bain as the dominant topic of the Republican race — “out of nowhere,” one adviser said. And it comes as Romney is aiming to turn his polling lead into a primary win — an early-state hat trick they hope will quickly establish him as the presumptive GOP nominee.

[u]They’ll start with advertisements featuring employees of companies started and rescued by Bain telling their stories — a direct response to the documentary released by the pro-Newt Gingrich super PAC that features employees of four companies closed by Bain that brutally slams Romney as a job killer.[/u] That documentary is set to be parceled out into shorter commercials that will air in South Carolina with a $3.4 million ad buy.

Romney adviser Kevin Madden said they’re confident they’ll quash those attacks with their new rebuttal.
“For every scare story that they try to present related to the governor’s experience in the private sector and free enterprise,” Madden said, “we can point to a whole host of successful enterprises that have resulted in job creation and wealth and prosperity.”

[b]It’s part of a shift for the Romney operation from painting his rivals as desperate for slamming him to instead casting their candidate as the standard bearer of traditional Republican economic values[/b].

“Our identification with core Republican principles helps us in the primary,” said one senior Romney adviser, who asked not to be identified. “[b]Being in favor of capitalism is always a major positive in the Republican primary[/b].”

“You’re going to get people saying, ‘But for this company, I wouldn’t have a job,’” the senior adviser said.

Romney has already pivoted from his awkward response over the weekend — including telling voters in New Hampshire that he, too, knew what it was like to fear being fired, from his early days out of business school — to embracing the highlighting of his time at Bain as a positive.

“I’ll be talking about [Obama’s] record when I’m facing him,” Romney said told reporters aboard his campaign plane en route to South Carolina. “And the other guys, they don’t have a record in the private economy, so it’ll be a different, I think, approach.”

And smacking back the suggestion that his rivals are simply leaping on a weakness now that the Democrats would have anyway exploited to the point of killing his candidacy, Romney — who referred to the other GOP candidates as “desperate” in his New Hampshire victory speech Tuesday night — said he is unconcerned with how his record will be portrayed in the primary or the general election.

“We’ve understood for a long time that the Obama people would come after free enterprise,” Romney said on the plane. “A little surprised to see Newt Gingrich as the first witness for the prosecution, but I don’t think that’s going to hurt my efforts. Frankly, if I can’t take a few shots coming from my colleagues on the Republican side, I’m not ready for Barack Obama.”

[b]Romney’s also engaged his surrogates to mount a line of attack that’s been circulating among Republican pundits since the Bain firestorm began at the NBC News/Facebook debate on Sunday: GOP presidential candidates who attack Romney for working in finance are anti-capitalist[/b].
[u]“We have a real problem when we have Republicans talking like danged Democrats against the free market. We believe in the free market,” South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley said at a Romney rally here Wednesday evening. “We want companies to be able to do what is best for companies and during tough times, you downsize and you make hard decisions and during good times, you expand and you help the businesses grow more[/u].[i].[/i]

That’s what he’s done. He’s done what every business has tried to do.”

[b]Republican Party elders have become increasingly anxious about the anti-Bain rhetoric, worried about its potential to damage the GOP brand and the man who’s looking increasingly likely to become their nominee. And on Wednesday, Gingrich and Jon Huntsman both scaled back their approach to Bain — Huntsman told his rivals to “cool it[/b].”

Rick Santorum urged them to change tactics as well.

“It’s this hostile rhetoric that unfortunately … some in our party now, even some running for president, will engage in with respect to capitalism,” Santorum told a crowd at an event in West Columbia on Wednesday night. “It is bad enough for Barack Obama to blame folks in business for causing problems in this country. It’s one other thing for Republicans to join him.”

Mark DeMoss, Romney’s senior adviser for outreach to social conservatives, said he sees that retreat continuing.

“The problem may take care of itself as conservatives continue to object to the line of attack,” DeMoss said.

Still, [b]the Romney camp acknowledges that the past few days may have some lasting damage, if only from the kind of response it drew out of Romney[/b].

Chief strategist Stuart Stevens said he expected that Romney’s inartful words about switching insurance companies — [b]“I like being able to fire people who provide services to me[/b]” — to a Nashua chamber of commerce breakfast will haunt him in advertisements for the rest of the campaign.

Stevens said Romney doesn’t take back the statement, or the one Sunday in Rochester, N.H., about how he too has feared being fired, but demurred when asked if he will repeat them in the same words.

“Campaigns are like that,” he said. “It’s not the History Channel, ads aren’t the History Channel. … And when the Democrats are rolling little old ladies over a cliff, I don’t think that they say they’re at a crime scene. That’s just how ads are. It’s all fair game.”

But Stevens said there’s only one conclusion to be drawn from how the vote in New Hampshire ended, following those days of attacks on Bain.

“It seems like the last few days have been good for us and not good for those who have been making that case,” Stevens said at Romney’s Manchester victory party Tuesday night. “You just look at the numbers: We’re in first, not fifth.”

[i]Jake Sherman contributed to this report[/i]


Todavia esta por verse, pero Mitt no es un creador de empleos... Es un creador de riqueza para Mitt.

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Charlie:[color=#ff0000][i][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Como sabes eso de “que no hubo 'company predation' en los casos presentados”??? Tienes acceso a memoranda interno de al empresa?[/font][/i][/color]


Oh, asi que YO soy el que tengo que desprobar el video fatulo ahora? Puedes tu probar que elefantes invisibles no existen?[font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#ff0000"][/color][/font]Tu demuestra que lo que dice el video es verdad, entonces hablamos.

Me recuerda a la FALACIA tuya y de tu perrito faldero de demandar que yo probara lo que vale mi casa y que soy piloto para tapar la mentira de el sobre la cartita de los federales.


[color=#ff0000][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [i]Sigues con la tactica de [/i][/font][i][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Saul Alinsky de crear un efecto de halo para embarrar a tus adversarios con un evento que no tiene nada que ver con ellos.[/font][/i][/color]

Si alguien es 'Alinskiate' aqui eres tu y Chemo, que se han pasado el ultimo mes usando una industria como chivo expiatorio de todos los males de la economia mientras ignoran lo que ha hecho el gobierno. Como dijo Alinski: [b] Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. [/b]Aqui ustedes dos son los que se fueron 'hard left' y empezaron con lo de 'Dogmatico' y pendejadas similares.

[color=#ff0000][i][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] Seguro que tus contactos con la Fearless no te contagiaron de algo mas que su fino cuero alimentado por el exceso de estrogena, porque no toleras nada sin sacar las uñas…[/font]
[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Eso de votar por el enemigo de mi enemigo son politicas de reaccionario tercermundista que no entiende que esa es la manera mas facil de cambiar un pasivo politico y economico por uno peor.[/font][/i][/color]

Que pena que ella no anda por aqui para que viera como su mas aferrado contrincante es ahora su aliado ideologico.


[color=#ff0000][i]A mi me gusta mas Chuck Roemer, pero Paul tiene mejor probabilidad deser electo. De hecho, Paul no es tan fuerte en mi asunto de mayor interes que es la del control migratorio, pero contrario a ti, no me ocupo de pulir la cristaleria cuando la casa esta en llamas.[/i][/color]

La cristaleria se rompe cuando los democratas que lo nominaran se regresaran al Partido Democrata, si eso no es todavia claro para ti entonces nada lo es. Y el apodo es "Buddy" no Chuck.


[color=#ff0000][i][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Al menos yo voy a buscar articulos, y no creo haber ido a sitios socialistas [/font][/i][/color]

No crees? esa es la gran diferencia Charlie, la indecision ideologica. Yo me di cuenta rapido que par de esos articulos que pusiste tenian corte socialista.


[color=#ff0000][i][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Creo que mas bien me lleve el premio a haberte dado una mini-clavada en publico. [/font][/i][/color]

Cuando? Remember you're the one running to the hills, not me brother.

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Del articulo que acabas de poner Charlie: [color=#ff0000][i][u]Several independent fact-checkers can't verify whether that claim is true, but Ed Kastenbaum saw a different story unfold at the East Bay packaging company where he worked when Bain acquired a controlling interest in it a decade ago[/u][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif].[/font][/i][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] Kastenbaum watched many of his friends and co-workers leave the company, which sold boxes and bags to retailers, or lose their jobs after Bain tried to squeeze more efficiencies out of his division, beginning in 2002.[/font][/color]

A decade ago? En 2002?

Charlie, oye y Romney no se fue de Bain en 1999?


No te conviertas en el Michael Moore del Cafe Boricua embollando la data Charlie, que ya para eso tenemos a Napo. Do your research before you embarrass yourself again.

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[quote name='Artaguito' timestamp='1326563999' post='2945036']
Charlie:[color=#ff0000][i][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Como sabes eso de “que no hubo 'company predation' en los casos presentados”??? Tienes acceso a memoranda interno de al empresa?[/font][/i][/color]


Oh, asi que YO soy el que tengo que desprobar el video fatulo ahora? Puedes tu probar que elefantes invisibles no existen?Tu demuestra que lo que dice el video es verdad, entonces hablamos.

Me recuerda a la FALACIA tuya y de tu perrito faldero de demandar que yo probara lo que vale mi casa y que soy piloto para tapar la mentira de el sobre la cartita de los federales.


[color=#ff0000][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][i]Sigues con la tactica de [/i][/font][i][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Saul Alinsky de crear un efecto de halo para embarrar a tus adversarios con un evento que no tiene nada que ver con ellos.[/font][/i][/color]

Si alguien es 'Alinskiate' aqui eres tu y Chemo, que se han pasado el ultimo mes usando una industria como chivo expiatorio de todos los males de la economia mientras ignoran lo que ha hecho el gobierno. Como dijo Alinski: [b]Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. [/b]Aqui ustedes dos son los que se fueron 'hard left' y empezaron con lo de 'Dogmatico' y pendejadas similares.

[color=#ff0000][i][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Seguro que tus contactos con la Fearless no te contagiaron de algo mas que su fino cuero alimentado por el exceso de estrogena, porque no toleras nada sin sacar las uñas…[/font][/i][/color]
[color=#ff0000][i][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Eso de votar por el enemigo de mi enemigo son politicas de reaccionario tercermundista que no entiende que esa es la manera mas facil de cambiar un pasivo politico y economico por uno peor.[/font][/i][/color]

Que pena que ella no anda por aqui para que viera como su mas aferrado contrincante es ahora su aliado ideologico.


[color=#ff0000][i]A mi me gusta mas Chuck Roemer, pero Paul tiene mejor probabilidad deser electo. De hecho, Paul no es tan fuerte en mi asunto de mayor interes que es la del control migratorio, pero contrario a ti, no me ocupo de pulir la cristaleria cuando la casa esta en llamas.[/i][/color]

La cristaleria se rompe cuando los democratas que lo nominaran se regresaran al Partido Democrata, si eso no es todavia claro para ti entonces nada lo es. Y el apodo es "Buddy" no Chuck.


[color=#ff0000][i][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Al menos yo voy a buscar articulos, y no creo haber ido a sitios socialistas [/font][/i][/color]

No crees? esa es la gran diferencia Charlie, la indecision ideologica. Yo me di cuenta rapido que par de esos articulos que pusiste tenian corte socialista.


[color=#ff0000][i][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Creo que mas bien me lleve el premio a haberte dado una mini-clavada en publico. [/font][/i][/color]

Cuando? Remember you're the one running to the hills, not me brother.
[/quote]


Ja, ja, ja, ja, ja… Sigues dando patadas d e ahogado. Yo no te exijo nada, sino que uso la ironia y el sarcasmo para indicar que tu no tienes mayor información privilegiada que cualquier otra persona. Cuando tu retaste a lo que dijo Chemo, mi actitud fue, si tu vas a desconfiar de lo que el dice, por que hemos de tratarte a ti de manera diferente a como tratas tu a otros? Cuando tu preguntaste “por que?”, yo respondi, “por que no?” Además, tu trajiste el sitio de el precio de tu casa cuando te pudiste haber quedado callado. Como siempre, eres esclavo de lo que dices.

Ves que no soportas nada… Has sido tu quien se ha servido de las tacticas de[i]”[/i][b]Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it” [/b][b]acusando a todo que no esta con tu versión de la realidad de socialista[/b][b]. [/b]No culpes a otros por tus carencias en esto.
[i]Quien te dice que la Fearless no se ha dado la vuelta??? Te esta yendo mas o menos como le fue a ella. Claro, con la excepcion de que ella si sabe hacer algo de “research”…[/i]

[i]Fijate que lo unico que usas para disputar si mis articulos eran o no socialistas fue:[/i] “Yo me di cuenta rapido que par de esos articulos que pusiste tenian corte socialista.” Eres esclavo de tu percepción y no de la búsqueda de datos e información. Eres un ente que obra visceralmente, y eso puede que sea bueno en la cabina pero, esa falta de capacidad de analisis critico, no te sirve bien en estos otros asuntos.

[i]I’m not running anywhere…I’m not the one who’s gone through several allies needed to cover his flank… I’m not the one who’s been caught in outright lies and inaccuracies (well other than my habit of calling Buddy Roemer “Chuck”)… I’m not the one that is willing to vote lockstep for a candidate that is dissonant with my values (I’ll stack Congress against Obama rather than see Romney in the White House)… So , pray tell, who’s running for the hills and who’s willing to make a stand?[/i]

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[color=#ff0000][i][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]si tu vas a desconfiar de lo que el dice, por que hemos de tratarte a ti de manera diferente a como tratas tu a otros? Cuando tu preguntaste “por que?”, yo respondi, “por que no?” Además, tu trajiste el sitio de el precio de tu casa cuando te pudiste haber quedado callado. Como siempre, eres esclavo de lo que dices.[/font][/i][/color]

La question de que si yo era o no piloto, (que todo el mundo lo sabe ya aqui) no salio sino como excusa para no presentar la carta que nunca existio. Porque el si tenia duda de mi profesion no me pregunto hace 6 meses? Solo una excusa para reculearse Charlie, y observa que la carta nunca aparecio.

[color=#ff0000][i]Fijate que lo unico que usas para disputar si mis articulos eran o no socialistas fue:[/i][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] “Yo me di cuenta rapido que par de esos articulos que pusiste tenian corte socialista.”[/font][/color]

Cuando usas articulos de estos: [color=#ff0000][i]Robert McIntyre is Director of the Citizens for Tax Justice. [/i][/color]No es dificil deducir que eso es socialista.


[color=#ff0000][i] I’m not the one that is willing to vote lockstep for a candidate that is dissonant with my values[/i][/color]

Which ones partner? You've gone from one side of the spectrum to the other faster than you can say "Jackie Robinson"!

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[quote name='Artaguito' timestamp='1326567826' post='2945042']
[color=#ff0000][i][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]si tu vas a desconfiar de lo que el dice, por que hemos de tratarte a ti de manera diferente a como tratas tu a otros? Cuando tu preguntaste “por que?”, yo respondi, “por que no?” Además, tu trajiste el sitio de el precio de tu casa cuando te pudiste haber quedado callado. Como siempre, eres esclavo de lo que dices.[/font][/i][/color]

La question de que si yo era o no piloto, (que todo el mundo lo sabe ya aqui) no salio sino como excusa para no presentar la carta que nunca existio. Porque el si tenia duda de mi profesion no me pregunto hace 6 meses? Solo una excusa para reculearse Charlie, y observa que la carta nunca aparecio.

[color=#ff0000][i]Fijate que lo unico que usas para disputar si mis articulos eran o no socialistas fue:[/i][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] “Yo me di cuenta rapido que par de esos articulos que pusiste tenian corte socialista.”[/font][/color]

Cuando usas articulos de estos: [color=#ff0000][i]Robert McIntyre is Director of the Citizens for Tax Justice. [/i][/color]No es dificil deducir que eso es socialista.


[color=#ff0000][i]I’m not the one that is willing to vote lockstep for a candidate that is dissonant with my values[/i][/color]

Which ones partner? You've gone from one side of the spectrum to the other faster than you can say "Jackie Robinson"!
[/quote]


Estas seguro que no hay algun otro clavo candente del cual colgar la poca dignidad que te queda???? Ninguno de estos puntos que traes son sustantivos... Solo te queda ondear la bandera blanca...

Pero para enfatizar:

[b] Bill O’Reilly, Bret Baier, Chris Wallace, Dick Morris and Sean Hannity vs. Neil Cavuto, Jon Stewart and Ron Paul[/b]


As news emerged of Ron Paul’s slow but sure ascent to the top of the Iowa polls, the mainstream media’s efforts to undermine his legitimacy as a candidate slowly accelerated in intensity and rate. For the last several years such luminaries as Charles Krauthammer, Bill O’Reilly, Sean Hannity, Christopher Wallace and Bret Baier have repeatedly stated without wavering, “Ron Paul is unelectable.” Look no further than Jersey’s own Donald Trump to say Ron Paul can’t win an election (note to the Donald, he’s won 12).
However, just this week, [u]Dick Morris, Republican strategist and former Clinton adviser, had the temerity to say during a radio interview that anyone who supports Ron Paul cannot be a patriot.[/u] [color=#ff0000][u][b]Yet the military troops donate more to Ron Paul than the rest of the GOP candidates [i]combined[/i][/b][/u][/color]. Dick, as my father once said the universe has a way of making sure the name lands on the right people, first starts by attacking Ron Paul’s views on the Patriot Act.
The unpopularity of the Patriot Act comes from the obvious conclusion most of us reached in 2001, it’s unconstitutional. You would think judging from the way Fox News conducts business, only Democrats want to bypass the Constitution to further their social agenda. Problem is, both parties are culpable in both the recent NDAA which allows for the indefinite detention of Americans without trial, charge or counsel and the Patriot Act. They have subverted the 4th, 5th & 6th Amendments.
[i][b]Here’s the audio, fast forward to 16:04. What follows is the most idiotic, fearful and prejudiced diatribe on Ron Paul you are likely to ever hear. This goes well beyond the usual, “Ron Paul is unelectable.”[/b][/i]
[url="http://vaca.bayradio.com/ksfo_archives/11400.mp3"]Dick Lives Up To His Name[/url]
[u]Dick Morris and the Republican Party are so fearful Ron Paul will win the nomination and take the Oval Office out of the hands of their banking and corporate masters, they have descended into the most hateful attack methods we’ve seen so far.[/u] But Morris is dead wrong. Ron Paul did not flame his way to the top like a meteor. His message has won through consistency, persistence and education. The more people learn about the message of liberty, the more they tell their friends. As Gerald Celente predicted, 2012 will be the year of the internet candidate. Followed by some pretty negative news about the economy.
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lGtuztgSzo&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lGtuztgSzo&feature=player_embedded[/url]
[b]Out the heart of darkness known as Fox News arises Neil Cavuto with a coherent, intelligent, fair and reasoned response to the protectionism of the two-party system Fox News is perpetuating against the anti-establishment and threat to the status quo, Ron Paul[/b]. I wouldn’t be even mildly surprised to learn the rest of the channel is taking their orders from on high at Murder Inc. with Rupert Murdoch prone to see a significant decrease in income should Ron Paul win the election.
Not to mention the Republican Party itself despises the message of equality and liberty coming from the Champion of the Constitution after a decade of neoconservative guano crazy governance.
Witness Neil asserting fair and balanced from a channel known for anything but those:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47uplutYMrU&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47uplutYMrU&feature=player_embedded[/url]
All Ron Paul has asked for and deserves is a chance to go toe-to-toe with the rest of the candidates and the media has decreed themselves the experts on who can or can’t win the election. They have created an ignorant circular logic for their reasoning both in withholding debate time from him during the majority of debates, at one point speaking for 89 seconds of a debate hosted by CBS. Paul isn’t alone in this treatment, though he has been the most victimized, receiving fewer questions and less time than Rick Santorum, the poster boy for bigotry and hatred and former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman, a respectable Republican if ever there was one but consistently in the bottom 3 of polls.
Former New Mexico Gov. [u]Gary Johnson was told by the New Hampshire Republican Party he hadn’t met their standards for fund raising and poll numbers, thus he wouldn’t be invited to the debate. Johnson’s views are nearly identical to Ron Paul’s, keep this in mind. But what’s nauseating about that philosophy is funds raising and poll numbers are generated [i]from [/i]debate performances, as witnessed by the stomach-turning former Speaker of the House, Newt Gingrich.[/u]
[u]Gingrich’s policies views are significantly further to the left of center, but his antagonistic approach to the debate mediators, a strong speaking presence and some form of petroleum-based charisma resulted in a bump for him in the polls and fundraising once-darling of the media Herman Cain jumped off the bridge to nowhere with his past wrapped around his neck.[/u]
Gingrich’s hypocrisy is truly astounding, yet Wolf Blitzer was nearly wetting himself with anticipation during the CNN debate Blitzer moderated and though the voters would rather vote for anyone other than Romney, he’s received about as much scrutiny from Fox News as the Moon landing.
Perry’s campaign sinks a little further every time he’s called on in a debate and his choices in hunting locations have given rise to some legitimate questions. Michele Bachmann’s hatred for 20 percent of the world’s population doesn’t carry well with the more tolerant Republicans and doesn’t resonate at all with the younger voters in most demographics.
So surprise, surprise, the media uses this week’s rise in Ron Paul’s poll numbers to bring up the old allegations of racism. Some newsletters of Paul’s written in the late 80s and 90s contained inflammatory language with racial statements. Paul has repeatedly disavowed the newsletters as having been ghostwritten and he has [i]ad nauseum[/i], stated he doesn’t support the statements.
Naturally, answering the question multiple times indicates to the press that you must be hiding something, so he was asked again by a CNN reporter this week. He gave the same answer, she asked again, he answered again then became frustrated with the process and ended the interview. It was nothing dramatic and nothing unexpected, the Congressman needs to mentally and emotionally prepare himself for these attacks as he represents a much bigger threat to the establishment than Bill Clinton ever did and we all know that Slick Willy never inhaled.
Regardless, Paul’s supporters so effectively lauded Cavuto for his stand against the media choosing [i]involvement [/i]in the nomination process, over their appropriate role of [i]reporting[/i] the events of the process, he responded Wednesday night.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m-54xzVmVM&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m-54xzVmVM&feature=player_embedded[/url]
[u]I cannot say this any clearer, the press & government are complicit in the corporatism rampant in D.C. The corporations certainly play their part, but it takes a malleable press and a compliant political class for things to get as out of hand as they have.[/u] Now we have a candidate running on the platform of principles & Constitutional adherence. And the press can’t attack him enough.
[u][b][color=#ff0000]Decide for yourselves if Ron Paul deserves your vote. Ask yourself if you want another corporate puppet like Gingrich or Romney, the two candidates crowned as “electable” by the press, running against the Goldman Sachs puppet currently in the Oval Office[/color][/b][/u].
Do you want the Constitution as a punchline for politicians or do you want the Constitution as a restriction on the federal government? Do you want a press to tell you who they want running the country?
Do you think there’s something wrong when one personality at a major cable news network is standing up for fairness and eradication of bias? How screwed up are we when Jon Stewart really has become a voice of reason in the political sphere?

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg3EptrKOms&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg3EptrKOms&feature=player_embedded[/url] Edited by charlie319

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Hipocritas!!


[b] [url="http://www.nationalconfidential.com/20120110/romney-got-10-million-federal-bailout-at-bain/"]Romney Got $10 Million Federal Bailout At Bain[/url][/b]

10 January 2012 | 1:40 pm EST
Topic: [url="http://www.nationalconfidential.com/topic/2012-election/"]2012 Election[/url], [url="http://www.nationalconfidential.com/topic/bailout/"]Bailout[/url], [url="http://www.nationalconfidential.com/topic/mitt-romney/"]Mitt Romney[/url]
By National Confidential Staff

[url="http://www.nationalconfidential.com/images/2012/01/mitt-romney-smile.jpg"][img]http://www.nationalconfidential.com/images/2012/01/mitt-romney-smile-350x261.jpg[/img][/url]Mitt Romney received a $10 million bailout from the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. in 1991, an event that runs contrary to the multimillionaire’s current anti-bailout position.

Documents obtained by the Boston Globe show that the FDIC negotiated a $10 million forgiveness with Bain & Co. while Romney was chairman and CEO in 1993.


The negotiations were part of a deal designed to reduce the debt load at the company, which was near bankruptcy. The FDIC had been forced to seize Bank of New England, who was a creditor of Bain’s.

In 2008, in a [url="http://www.nationalconfidential.com/topic/new-york-times/"]New York Times[/url] op-ed titled “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt,” Romney [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html"]argued[/url] that “Detroit needs a turnaround, not a check.”
In May of 2011, Chrysler succesfully [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/us/politics/25romney.html"]paid[/url] the U.S. Treasury back $5.1 billion from its federal bailout, while a study [url="http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2010/11/17/gm-ipo-auto-bailout-saved-more-than-1-million-jobs-study-says/"]found[/url] that 1.14 million jobs were saved by the bailout of the [url="http://www.nationalconfidential.com/topic/auto-industry/"]auto industry[/url]. [[url="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/05/1051835/-Mitt-Romney,-who-secured-a-$10-million-federal-bailout-for-Bain,-calls-Obama-a-crony-capitalist"]Daily Kos[/url]]

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